Neidan Study Group Netherlands

Neidan Study Group Netherlands Neidan Study Group Netherlands is a page dedicated to serious study of Neidan (Internal Alchemy) .

16/01/2026

Though this is not a Neidan quote, it could be useful for any practitioner
Even if it’s not sure that this Waka is from Dogen, it contains definitely many elements of Dogen’s teachings. Dogen himself cleary used a lot of Daoist imagery, Chan/Zen is in ,any ways a fushion of Daoist and Buddhist ideas and practices’

鏡清雨滴声 Kiku mama ni Just hearing

また心なき mata kokoro naki without extra mind [that grasps them],

身にしあれば mi ni shi areba the jewel-like raindrops

おのれなりけり onore nari keri dripping from the eaves

軒の玉水 noki no tamamizu are myself.

This is the fifth waka in the 13 addendum waka in the Shunjusha text. This waka appears only Menzan’s Sanshodoei collection; we don’t know where he found it. There is a similar verse in another later collection of Dōgen’s waka called the Yukonzan version, but the first three lines are different:

耳に見て / 目に聞くならば / うたがは / おのれなりけり / 軒の玉水
mimi ni mite / me ni kiku naraba / utagawaji / onore nari keri / noki no tamamizu

Seeing with ears and hearing with eyes,
there is no doubt that,
the jewel-like raindrops
dripping from the eaves
are myself.

In the Rinzai tradition, this waka is considered to have been written by Daito Kokushi (Shuho Myocho, 1282 – 1338). The fourth line of Daito’s waka is a little different, (おのずからなる、onozukara naru; Seeing with ears and hearing with eyes, / there is no doubt that, the jewel-like raindrops dripping from the eaves / as they simply are). Anyway, there is no evidence to judge if this is really Dōgen’s waka or not.

The title of this waka, “Jingqing’s Sound of Raindrops,” refers to the koan that appears as case 46 of the Blue Cliff Record (Hekiganroku). The conversation between Zen master Jingqing and a monk in the kōan is as follows:

Jingqing asked a monk, “What sound is that outside the gate?”
The monk said, “The sound of raindrops.”
Jingqing said, “Sentient beings are inverted. They lose themselves and follow after things.” (衆生顛倒、迷己遂物)
Then the monk said, “What about you, Teacher?”
Jingqing said, “I almost don’t lose myself”
The monk said, “What is the meaning of ‘I almost don’t lose myself’?”
Jingqing said, “Though it still should be easy to express oneself, to say the whole thing has to be difficult.” 1

In this kōan, the Zen master Jingqing and his student are inside a building and hear a sound. This kōan is about the relation between the six sense organs and the objects of the sense organs, in this case “ear” and “sound.” Because it was raining outside, the monk answered his teacher that it was the sound of raindrops they were hearing. Then Jingqing said, “Sentient beings are viewing things upside-down. They lose themselves and follow after things.” This saying is based on a teaching of the Surangama Sutra. The sentence from the sutra is:

一切衆生從無始來迷己爲物。失於本心爲物所轉。(一切衆生無始よりこのかた、己に迷うて物と為し、本心を失いて物の為に轉ぜらる。)

From the time without beginning, all beings have mistakenly identified themselves with what they are aware of. Controlled by their experience of perceived objects, they lose track of their fundamental minds. 2

“Their fundamental minds” refers to the One-Mind, Mind-nature, Original-Mind, etc.— the mind source as the noumenon. In this section of the sutra, the fundamental mind (honmyō-meijō-shin,本妙明浄心, the originally pure and wondrous understanding mind) is compared to an innkeeper; the thinking-mind caused by encountering objects, therefore based on dichotomy between subject and object, is compared to the visitors of the inn. Thinking-mind is conditioned, impermanent and ever-changing, but the innkeeper is always there, so it is permanent.

What the sutra means is that when we lose sight of the true essence of the self (the fundamental mind), we identify ourselves as the subject that is facing the objects we encounter, we discriminate among them, evaluate them and chase after or escape from them, and thus we begin to transmigrate within samsara. Being deluded by the “visiting” discriminative mind and losing the fundamental mind is the cause of suffering within samsara.

However, Dōgen did not appreciate the Surangama Sutra during his entire life. I think, that was because it promoted this concept of an “original fundamental mind” as noumenon.

Jinqing says that people are deluded and lose themselves and they chase after external things. Then the subject and the object become separate. When these are separate and interact, something happens in our minds. In the koan, a thought is aroused in the student’s mind and he said “that was the sound of raindrops.” He grasped himself as the subject that is hearing the sound of raindrops. According to this master’s teaching, at that very moment the student loses the fundamental self, chases after an object (heard) and becomes the subject (hearer) of doing such action (hearing).

According to the Surangama Sutra, this means that all of the discriminative thinking caused by interactions between the sense organs and the objects of the sense organs is delusion. We should therefore stop thinking, restore calmness without waves of discriminative thinking and awaken only to this pure and bright fundamental mind, free of all duality and defilements. Based on this teachihg, Jingqing is saying that as soon as the monk hears the sound of the raindrops and tries to answer the teacher’s question, he has fallen into the duality between subject and object and begun interacting with it. His point is that when the monk’s mind is divided into subject and object, and the subject thinks about the object, and he then answers his teacher, he has lost his original self.

In Shōbōgenzō Ikka-myōju (One Bright Jewel), Dōgen writes:

The “entire ten-direction” means the ceaseless activities of chasing after things and making them into the self, and chasing after the self and making it into things.

In this sentence, Dōgen uses the same expression Jingqing used, but in the positive way. If this waka was written by Dōgen, I think he expressed the same thing. Our life is ceaseless and endless interaction between the self and myriad things, but the self and myriad things are not in the dichotomy of subject and objects; rather they are working together as a part of the total function (全機zenki) of the entire network of interdependent origination. In Tenzō-kyōkun, Dōgen writes, “All day and all night things come to mind and the mind attends to them At one with them all, diligently carry on the Way.”

In this case “mind” means the tenzō or the self. Things come to the self and the self attends to those things. This is the way the self and myriad things work together as one reality. The important point here is being attentive. We need to intimately work with myriad things in the way we express our awakening to the reality of impermanence, selfless, and interconnectedness.

— • —
Translation and commentary by Shōhaku Okumura-roshi

1 Translation by Thomas Cleary &J.C. Cleary (The Blue Cliff Record, Shambhara,1977) case 46, p.275.
2 Translation by Buddhist Text Translation Society (The Śūraṅgama Sūtra, Buddhist Text Translation Society, 2009), p.65.

16/01/2026

Some notes on the use of visualization in meditation practice:

“The mind was like a monkey and the intention like a wild horse never staying or stopping. They worried that people would get enticed by things and
lose their will to practice, so they set up images in nothingness to prevent
people’s ears from hearing, their eyes from seeing, their mind from going crazy, and their intention from getting distracted. “

Chuandao ji

(translation and source : Livia Kohn)

One of my early encounters with Neidan literature.
31/12/2025

One of my early encounters with Neidan literature.

Happy New Year, may 2026 bring you luck, peace, happiness and good health 。⛩🌈🎈
31/12/2025

Happy New Year, may 2026 bring you luck, peace, happiness and good health 。⛩🌈🎈

30/12/2025

One term can be interpreted in many ways. Take for example 虚其心,实其腹 void the heart and fill the belly from the Dao De Jing.
In the early days it seems like a government doctrine where the state makes sure people are well taken care of and have no need to think too much. It was also likely meant to have a spiritual implication since the sage is meant to embody the Dao, but the text never tells us about specific practices.
Later it was interpreted by early breath work masters to refer to filling the abdomen with breath and making the mind still in the Dantian. It seems that the method often led to tension and in Yun Ji Qi Qian there is even a saying that if you practice these breath holding exercises it can cause the urine to be slightly pink, so that is concerning since that probably infers the bladder was damaged.
Neidan people usually take this admonition to be related to how we establish the basis for Kan and Li to mix and generate the medicinal product. To simplify, quieting the mind and calmly adjusting the breath in the lower Dantian will result in the gradual transformation of the body and spirit (and so on).
Martial artists may have a totally different interpretation which could be different style to style and lineage to lineage depending on the experiences of masters over the years. Who says that it automatically always refers to breath and mind in the first place, since abdomen and heart are also physical locations and fill and empty could have multiple meanings.
This is why when we use the term "Daoist martial arts" we don't mean the martial arts of a specific sect of Daoism, we typically mean martial arts which take Daoist ideas as their basis. Considering there is cause to believe some styles like Baguazhang were created by Daoists, this could also imply they are literally martial arts of Daoist origin, but the implementation of a robust theory of Dao in the Martial arts is a cultural matter, not a religious one.
These interpretations are only sacrosanct insofar as people make them so. Ultimately they are interpretations and as in the case of strong breathing which causes bloody urination, they often change into something more manageable over time. At the same time, the ideas are always competing and people tend to select what they feel works for them. It is a very human phenomenon.

About the image: ai makes cuter Buddhists than it does Daoists. Also, since my basic argument is that we should pay attention to Dao studies as a cultural phenomenon, it would seem silly to use Daoist priest. Also, it is just a cute picture with no intentional meaning.

Mid winter, but the first blossoms. Happy Winter Solstice. ⛩🙏🌸Winter Solstice is a very important time in Internal Alche...
21/12/2025

Mid winter, but the first blossoms. Happy Winter Solstice. ⛩🙏🌸

Winter Solstice is a very important time in Internal Alchemy, it’s the moment the Yin dominates, but the Yang is starting to sprout again. This is a great time for meditation. Wish all of you great meditational experience and hope the New Year will bring you all the good things.

19/12/2025
Very very sad news, Richard was a very nice person and a great student of the Dao, he did the first translation of the  ...
11/12/2025

Very very sad news, Richard was a very nice person and a great student of the Dao, he did the first translation of the Can Tong Qi and translated many Daoist works especially those related to Inner Alchemy. Have nice memories to my chats with him during the Rothenburg congress, where we used to meet.

09/12/2025

We have a small, but growing working group who research and think about Neidan and medieval Yang Sheng documents and over time one of the major observations has been that there are many health and even medical applications of these practices which can really help people.
Although this area may have overlap with Chinese Medicine, its utility seems to be not exactly identical as a result of the difference in energetic anatomy between Daoism and CM. Anecdotal early testing (keeping in mind that many of us use these practices in clinic) we have found positive effects on:
- chronic shoulder, neck, upper back pain and headache,
- spasm from herniated disc,
- insomnia,
- heart rate and blood pressure regulation (using measurement especially showed reduced heart rate after meditation in various contexts),
- insomnia,
- anxiety etc...
These are experiential and anecdotal since we have only prescribed these to our patients and used them on ourselves, nevertheless in a tentative and subjective sense we have had good luck testing a number of practices in treatment and hitherto have not encountered negative outcomes, although this is certainly a subject which we are concerned with and are taking care to avoid.
Our little group is still nascent and growing in membership along with being relatively loose, but the observation of what appear to be concrete medical benefits to specific conditions found in CM clinic holds promise that these techniques could be organized and used as adjunct treatments either under a CM Qigong or Yang Sheng framework in the future.

“In heaven, it is the celestial center; in man, it is the true intent. The great elixir ascends and descends through the...
07/12/2025

“In heaven, it is the celestial center; in man, it is the true intent. The great elixir ascends and descends through the rotation of true intent, just as the celestial wheel circulates through the celestial center; both follow the same principle.”

在天為天心,在 人為真意.大藥憑真意之轉旋而升降,猶天輪藉天心之斡運而循環,皆一理也

- Da Yi Tong Jie 大易通解 (Comprehensive Explanation of the Great Changes)

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